Why can't the French build a proper sports car?

"Awedgar" (Awedgar) 09/07/2013 at 10:00 • Filed to: None

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It's funny, the Germans can make proper sports cars, the Japanese can, and so can the Americans, the Brits, the Swedes, certainly the Italians, and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Yet, the French never have really been able to pull it off lately. They are the fifth economy in the world, are capable of great engineering feats (the Concorde for example), yet they have never been able to make a good sports car in years, even decades.

They are brilliant at making small, cheap and fast hatchbacks. Cars like the Renault Twingo 133 or the Peugeot 208 GTI are both practical, very cheap, and incredible fun. In the hot hatch category, the french dominate the segment and have been making some incredibly important cars, like the 205 GTI back in the 80s.

But when it comes to making a proper, uncompromized rear wheel drive sports car, they just can't seem to do it. Probably the closest thing in recent years is...well another hatchback. The Clio V6 to be precise. With the engine swapped in the middle and replacing the rear seats, the Clio V6 was a proper madman's car. The steering was incredibly communicative, the V6 sounded fantastic and the car was a great deal of fun. However, go past the limits of grip and it would bite your head off. What's more, this car isn't really a proper bespoke sports car, but rather a muscle car. Indeed, the concept of a muscle car was that it was supposed to be your dad's cheap, common car, fitted with a huge engine. And that's what this is.

Then there is the Venturi Atlantique. This was pretty much the last french supercar ever made, and was mid engined and rear wheel drive as it should be. The engine was a V6, good from 260hp to approximately 310. It was extremely light, and had a very tasteful design. And was a massive commercial flop. Over its entire lifetime, only about 700 were sold. How was it to live with? Well the steering was very communicative, the interior was handcrafted with gobs of wood and leather, and the mid engined balanced was very nice. However, the turbo sound was nearly deafening, most of the interior switches came from a Citroen, and it was still underpowered.

Then there is Alpine. This Renault owned manufacturer is probably the savior of french sports cars. The A110 was a motorsport legend back in the 70s, but since the early 90s, they haven't made anything. Their last efforts were the V6, rear engined Alpines, the latest being the A610. The problem is, it was a turbocharged PRV engine that did not produce enough power for a supercar, the interior was dreadful Renault parts bin, and the engine was hanging in the back of the car à la 911, resulting in a pendulum effect.

Finally, we have the Renault Spider. Manufacturer by Renault Sport, this Lotus like machine was extremely light (900k), was mid engined rear wheel drive and was certainly race oriented. However, it also only sold in tiny numbers (1800), and while undeniably a no concessions sports car, it wasn't one really build for the masses or livable every day.

Of course, the french are great at teasing us with wonderful concept cars like the Citroen GT, but they never end up building the damn things.

And yes, the greatest supercar in the world, the Bugatti Veyron, does indeed stem from a prestigious manufacturer that used to be French, but let's not be fooled into thinking anyone else but the Germans at VAG would (and could) accomplish such a feat.

Nowadays, the French want us to believe that monstrosities like the Peugot 406 coupe or the RCZ are sports cars. And many people are fooled into thinking they are, as it has been selling quite well. But a front wheel drive car that is a Peugeot 308 underneath, and sold mainly with a 150hp four cylinder diesel, just isn't a sports car.

Why can't they build a sports car then? One of the reasons could be taxation. In fact, diesel fuel has been taxed much less than gasoline, as a choice by the French government to help the agriculture and trucking industry. This means that diesel has dominated the french car landscape (approx 80% of all cars are diesel in France), and “diesel” does not rhyme with “sport”. However, it hasn't stopped them from building small, gasoline powered hot hatches.

What the French need to to build, is a front engine rear wheel drive car that is livable every day, good to drive, and relatively cheap.

davedave1111 > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 10:16

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It would appear that the answer to your question is 'because you have a very odd idea of what constitutes a proper sports car'.

duurtlang > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 10:16

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What the French need to to build, is a front engine rear wheel drive car that is livable every day, good to drive, and relatively cheap.

A dedicated chassis for a RWD car would be expensive to develop, and only be worth it if many would be sold. Which is a problem because there are relatively few people willing to spend money on a new sports car of any brand. I seriously doubt the French brands have the perceived image and the access to the right markets to pull this one off while keeping things profitable. Unless Renault reskins a Nissan and PSA a GM product.

And then there's Bugatti, although you could argue that's become a German car with a French badge.

Nowadays, the French want us to believe that monstrosities like the Peugot 406 coupe or the RCZ are sports cars.

I'm not sure about the RCZ but the Peugeot 406 coupe is and never was intended as a sports car. It's a GT, and a competent one at that. A sporty cruiser. It handles very well for a FWD car of its age and size and is supremely comfortable on long distance trips. I know, I've clocked 3000 km in 4-5 days through the Alps in one, last month.

Awedgar > davedave1111 09/07/2013 at 10:18

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Front or mid engine RWD, is that odd?

davedave1111 > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 10:34

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a) Yes, and b) those aren't your only criteria if you're also excluding the Clio V6.

As far as the general definition goes, there are probably more exceptions to your rule than examples of it. Everything from a Fiat Barchetta to a Porsche 911 breaks it. Hell, Lotus broke it with the second Elan, and no-one who's driven one argues that it's not a sports-car. And the Saab Sonnett I was a mid-engined, FWD sports-car.

vdub_nut: scooter snob > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 10:35

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Veyron may be up for debate, but what about the OTHER Bugatti, the EB110?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 10:36

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The French have made a fair number of sports cars, just not all that many recently.

What I want to know is why Citroen hasn't tried. The 1999 Citroen Xantia V6 is still the fastest car to go through the Moose Test thanks to the advanced hydropneumatic susension. It's faster than a 996 GT2, despite its ~1450kg kerb weight and skinny 205 section tyres.

Imagine that, but on a proper sports car. That I want to see.

Actually, there's something vaguely similar on the McLaren MP4-12C, but Citroen had it in 1999.

PatBateman > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 10:37

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Why can't they build a proper sports car?

They give up too easy.

Awedgar > vdub_nut: scooter snob 09/07/2013 at 10:46

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Good point, though Bugatti was Italian at the time of this car

Awedgar > davedave1111 09/07/2013 at 10:48

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Probably true, the definition of a sports car is probably the most argued term in the automotive world, and there probably isn't a right or wrong answer. I just wish the french would make one that doesn't suck

duurtlang > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 09/07/2013 at 10:50

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If I'm not mistaken the 2.0 turbo was even faster, due to its lower weight in front. But only the Activa versions.

I do think they should've built a coupe version of the Xantia. Had they done so I might've been the owner of one today.

DoktorZombie > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 10:51

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More importantly, why doesn't Honda?

I mean, they KNOW how to do it. They can't even give us a Prelude.

Mikeado > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 10:55

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How many first-gen Elises do you suppose Lotus sold? Not a lot. An Elise is definitely not an ideal DD either, although it can at least be had with a roof. What's more, I've read a review of the Sport Spider (which had its own race series, by the way, and surely a car that gets used in sport is a sports car?) which said it was amazing fun to drive, so there's that.

As for now, Renault has relaunched Alpine and are co-developing a mid-engined sports car derived from the A110-50 Concept, with Caterham, who know how to make no-compromise sports cars.

The Clio V6 shares very little with the normal Clio and was even made in a different factory. It is DEFINITELY a bespoke car, and being a fighty mid-engined rear-driver also makes it a proper sports car. Just a slightly odd one.

The RCZ is as much a sports car as the (Golf-based) Audi TT is. There's a difference between coupé and sports car, and those two aren't trying to be out-and-out sports cars (TT-S/RS & RCZ-R aside).

vdub_nut: scooter snob > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 10:57

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That's kinda what I meant, "does Italian ownership exclude Frenchness?"

I suppose it does. What about coachbuilders, or something like a (french) Iso Grifo?

Awedgar > vdub_nut: scooter snob 09/07/2013 at 10:59

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Sure, back in the day I agree they knew how to make them, although my article focused more on later days. Stuff like Facel Vega et al are good examples

The Transporter > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 11:13

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The French know how to make art, make food, and make love, but they do not know how to make anything mechanical. That's what ze Germans are for.

Awedgar > The Transporter 09/07/2013 at 11:22

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Agreed

davedave1111 > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 11:43

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From what I've heard, the Renault Wind doesn't suck. Not a looker, but reportedly fun to drive - and cheap, too.

When I say it's not a looker, that's actually being too kind, come to think of it. Even the publicity shots can't make it look good.

Bluecold > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 11:56

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Megane RS begs to differ. 8.07 'ring time. Which is proper quick.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 12:44

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Well...yeah. At least the 406 coupe is a damn good looking car if nothing else.

Awedgar > Bluecold 09/07/2013 at 12:58

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Good one

BannedAndFurious > Mikeado 09/07/2013 at 13:39

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Aren't all Renault Sport cars build in a separate facility?

Mikeado > BannedAndFurious 09/07/2013 at 15:03

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I know for sure that the previous RS Clio was made in the old Alpine factory in Dieppe, where the V6 was also made. Whether all Renaultsport cars are/were, I don't know.

I've also got a sneaking suspicion that the new Clio 200 Turbo EDC is made alongside the standard car, thus making it even less special than the previous-gen car...

BannedAndFurious > Mikeado 09/07/2013 at 17:00

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The most desirable renault for me is still the venerable Clio Williams 16V. I just saw a mint one on road today and it looked so good.

Twingo RS was made in Slovenia, but for the new Clio RS I really don't know. But anyway the new clio is outclassed by Fiesta ST anyway.

SpeedSix > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 19:55

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These two are quite proper to me.

SpeedSix > Awedgar 09/07/2013 at 19:56

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How dare you not include a single picture of the Alpine A110 1600S in your article.

JasonStern911 > Awedgar 09/08/2013 at 19:51

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1. America is the largest market for cars, and French manufacturers have zero direct presence.

2. Americans aren't buying a French sports car unless it's cheap (like Kia/Hyundai cheap) and reliable (unlike the last Peugots sold in America).

3. The French can't build a cheap and reliable sports car. They could probably build one or the other, but not both.

Awedgar > JasonStern911 09/08/2013 at 19:57

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Good points

Spasoje > Awedgar 09/10/2013 at 02:15

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It's not all about numbers and reason...

Culturally, the French are more about sexiness than sport. Sexiness is slow, smooth, seductive, and adaptable. Sport is fast, rough, competitive, and purpose-built. Their cars ultimately reflect this.

duurtlang > feather-throttle-not-hair 09/10/2013 at 04:46

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It drives great too (for a GT, not a sports car) and is reliable.

Kookanoodles > vdub_nut: scooter snob 09/10/2013 at 06:44

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Doesn't really count, Bugatti at that time was 100% Italian (factory, owners, designers, workers, everything. Someone bought the name and recreated a company in Italy called Bugatti, so even the company was legally Italian).

Kookanoodles > Awedgar 09/10/2013 at 06:45

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So wait, you complain the French can't make a good no-compromise sports car, and then you complain the Renault Sport Spider is not enough of a daily driver ?

Kookanoodles > Awedgar 09/10/2013 at 06:47

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By the way, no one at Peugeot ever tried to convince anyone the 406 coupé was a sports car, it's just a small GT. And it's not a monstrosity, it's magnificent.

Kookanoodles > The Transporter 09/10/2013 at 06:53

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Which is probably why Peugeot, Alpine, Matra or Bugatti have never won Le Mans, Citroën hasn't dominated the WRC for 10 years, and cars like the Citroën DS, the Bugatti 57SC Atlantic or the Renault Mégane RS have never existed. You're right, the French can't do anything mechanical. Oh wait, I also forgot Dassault, Airbus, Aérospatiale, Ariane, Eurocopter, Concorde and the TGV.

Awedgar > Spasoje 09/10/2013 at 09:30

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I agree, they are very image-driven when it comes to purchasing their cars, even luxury cars tend to be purchased with the smallest engines

Awedgar > Kookanoodles 09/10/2013 at 09:31

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In regards to the way it drives and the way it's built, it is in my book!

Awedgar > Kookanoodles 09/10/2013 at 09:32

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Haha touché

Awedgar > Awedgar 09/10/2013 at 09:34

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I saw it as too uncompromised in my book. I wish they would make something more along the lines of an MX5 fighter..